Tubewhore ([info]tubewhore) wrote,
@ 2008-04-02 22:15:00
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Top of the Piccadilly Line - Bounds Green to Manor Park: Part Two
So, after a brief stop in Bounds Green we trundle back down to Wood Green.  Home to BBC rehearsal rooms etc.  As soon as we pop out upstairs I notice a bevy of hi-vi jacketed police, and in these security conscious times, wonder if this will prove  an interesting occasion.   I am not to be disappointed.



I stand beneath the station signage and G heads across the road to get a wide shot of the curved frontage.  As he's firing off shots one of the bobbies peels off and heads across the road.  I immediately think he's on an intercept course with the tall fella, think I'm just being paranoid as copper isn't in any kind of hurry, and am proved right as copper catches up with G on the traffic island and conversation ensues.  Fuzz talks to G, G turns to point at me, and I give a cheery wave back, Fuzz pulls out paperwork.  I can't just stand there, so take a stroll over to discover that G is getting a stop and search for the suspicious behaviour of taking photos of a local landmark in full view of a handful of police.  How dumb a crim would he have to be to be standing on a traffic island, wearing black, being an inconspicious six foot bleeding seven, carrying out nefarious activities with the police in their day glow stylishness being right bloody there? ...anyway, after losing my cool with the community policeman that stopped B taking pics at Waterloo, I remain chipper as G is written up.  I'm keeping the documentation as a Tubewhore artifact.  Helps that G has interesting ID to show...

Not living in London myself anymore, I hadn't seen the poster campaign urging Londoners to report people taking pictures of landmarks.  Seriously, what the hell is going on?  We seemed to have slipped sideways into Eastern Europe during the cold war where we're being encouraged to rat out the hordes of Italian exchange students taking photos of Nelson's Column.  There seems to be plenty of online backlash, but in all seriousness this new approach of civilain surveillance is desperately concerning. Who needs terrorists when we just have media hysteria to do all their work for them.  Amusingly, back underground - where we take loads of pictures thankeeverymuch...I spot a page from 1984, which has been photocopied and stuck up around the platforms; how very apt. 


   

...this does mean that exterior shots of Wood Green were limited to what we got before police intervention...when I do Arnos Grove and Southgate, I'll get more wide shots of the Wood Green station itself as it's rather lovely. 

Downstairs continues, and indeed expands, the vague Egyptian feel of the line, as the tiling colour are green and cream stripes reminding me of death masks and such-like.  Not so shiny and refurbished as Bounds Green though, but I also sort of like the scuffed-up grubbiness.  London is supposed to be a bit care-worn and battered looking...









grubby edges...










 


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Ok - hold on...
[info]papajoemambo
2008-04-02 10:31 pm UTC (link)


I'm not understanding.

It's now discouraged to take photos of PUBLIC landmarks in London?

Why on Earth would that be?

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Re: Ok - hold on...
[info]tubewhore
2008-04-02 10:41 pm UTC (link)
the policeman's comments was that we were acting suspiciously because we were taking photos of an 'iconic building'. Actually what he said was that Wood Green station was a 'local icon' but that's just silly English...

...but yes, on one hand amused to be seen to be so dangerous to democracy, and on the other bloody pissed off at how basic civil liberty to gurn at the camera is being treated as threatening. We are being cowed by degrees...and not enough fuss is being made about all the crap that is being imposed on us, all the surveillence carried out, in the name of this nebulous need for 'security'.



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Re: Ok - hold on...
[info]midnightxpress
2008-04-03 10:19 am UTC (link)
An equally relevant question is: Why does it take 4 policemen to guard Wood Green Tube station on a Sunday afternoon in March?

Are the dgos about to escape from the famous nearby shelter and run amok?

...and to think all our tax burdens hav gone up to pay for this crap

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Re: Ok - hold on...
[info]papajoemambo
2008-04-03 02:37 pm UTC (link)


Well the good news is that usually you have to pay a lot more to be pushed around by an authority figure.

The bad news is, that your taxes (like ours) are high enough for it to be a sexual service, and it's hardly consentual.

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Re: Ok - hold on...
[info]miss_soap
2008-04-03 08:28 am UTC (link)
Because, apparently, TERRORISTS take photographs of public buildings. Yes, them and every tourist in London. There's a poster campaign now encouraging Londoners to report:
* People with two mobile phones [which would include me]
* People taking photoraphs of buildings [which would also include me]
* People acting 'suspiciously' [me again, clearly]

The posters are here.

Another acquaintance had a security guard attempt to take their camera from them at the weekend and delete the photograph he'd just taken of Spitalfields Market. With no warrant and no signage to say that the taking of photographs was forbidden. Acquaintance told him where he could get off.

Edited at 2008-04-03 08:28 am UTC

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Re: Ok - hold on...
[info]papajoemambo
2008-04-03 02:28 pm UTC (link)

Ok, so essentially institutionalized thuggery.

We Canadians kept telling you Brits to not let your police play with those broken-nosed Americans, now look what it's got ya...

Good Grief.

Well, the good news is, there's plenty of room over here if you want to escape. We have fresh water too.

Edited at 2008-04-03 02:29 pm UTC

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[info]juggzy
2008-04-02 10:33 pm UTC (link)
Not living in London myself anymore, I hadn't seen the poster campaign urging Londoners to report people taking pictures of landmarks.

This is absofuckinlutely appalling. I'm going to link to this article.

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[info]tubewhore
2008-04-02 10:39 pm UTC (link)
spread the word...



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[info]laughingmagpie
2008-04-02 10:39 pm UTC (link)
The taking photos thing is just... depressing.

Do you mean that after the coppers talked to you, writing you up and everything, you weren't allowed to take photographs afterwards? Even after explaining?

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[info]tubewhore
2008-04-02 10:42 pm UTC (link)
I don't think we'd have been arrested, but by that point we figured we had what I needed and went off to take platform shots. Only remembered after that I'd have liked a full shot of the station itself.

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[info]muffledsqueak
2008-04-02 11:17 pm UTC (link)
I'm here via [info]juggzy. I'm curious - did they actually tell you to stop, or just ask what you were doing?

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[info]midnightxpress
2008-04-03 10:02 am UTC (link)
The copper was bored and saw two wierdos, and thought "i'm having them".
We co-operated because, a) its was the quickest thing to do and b) it's was quite ammusing. I guess he could have ordered us to stop had we been less co-operative.

The policeman did say we could continue with our shoot, as we had "proven ourselves".

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Ignorance is Strength
[info]failing_angel
2008-04-02 10:40 pm UTC (link)
I hadn't seen the poster campaign urging Londoners to report people
It's a very depressing, although equally I haven't encountered any aggro from it thus far (I'm half hoping that I'll get someone say something in response).

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Re: Ignorance is Strength
[info]tubewhore
2008-04-02 10:44 pm UTC (link)
it's more than depressing, it's sapping something essential from the world...

...it's getting harder to be conspiciously weird, y'know. What with goths getting beaten to death, and everyone so jumpy about 'security', where's the fun? Where's my freedom to carry on the tradition of Great British Eccentrics gone?

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Re: Ignorance is Strength
[info]juggzy
2008-04-02 10:48 pm UTC (link)
You're right. It cuts right to the heart of whatever-it-is that makes Britain great. Fuck it. We should have a cup of tea.

Seriously, though. Not In This Country. Not In My Name.

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[info]failing_angel
2008-04-02 10:55 pm UTC (link)
Continuing the Orwellian lines - 'Freedom is Slavery'.

I think that at a time like this, there's even more reason to be eccentric.

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It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen
[info]failing_angel
2008-04-02 10:51 pm UTC (link)
http://cms.met.police.uk/news/publicity_campaigns/terrorism/met_launches_new_counter_terrorism_campaign_25_02_08
"The Metropolitan Police Service is asking people to trust their instincts and pass on information about any unusual activity or behaviour to the confidential Anti-Terrorist Hotline on 0800 789 321.
Information can also be passed on via the Met website homepage by clicking on the red and white 'If you suspect it report it' icon.
'If you suspect it, report it', is the key message of the new campaign. Advertisements will run in London newspapers and on the Capital's radio stations for five weeks from today"


The focus is supposed to be less on photographers in general, but more those who may be getting planning details - I suppose part of the PCSO's reaction was being overly aware.
Still, it's a bit of a bugger considering I like the alternative shots in the tube and indeed pics of punk security cameras

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Re: It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen
[info]tubewhore
2008-05-08 12:08 pm UTC (link)
I've just gotten off my arse and written to my MP. I'm sure a lot of people would think there are bigger issue to fret over - especially if you're from Burma (and notice how the Beeb are saying Burma not Myanmar these days) - bit is by taking things by inches that we slide towards fascism and the bloody BNP being elected to the London Assembly. The police are there to protect over civil liberties not to curtail them. I'm sick of ill-informed killjoys using 'security' as an answer to stopping any kind of debate, of questioning any form of authority being squashed, of feeling uneasy around coppers, of being thought 'unpatriotic' for criticising the g'vnt over holding without trial...

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Re: It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen
[info]failing_angel
2008-05-08 01:21 pm UTC (link)
bigger issue to fret over
I think that depends as to whether one looks at the short, mid, or long-term, and equally I think a letter campaign is entirely the right thing to do.

On a note of the photos - I've emailed over a pdf that might be of use.

Equally though, I have to say that whilst I'm not singing and dancing over the BNP getting a seat on the assembly, it does remind me of Tower Hamlets in the 90s. I would see their rise as symptomatic of disenchantment with the existing govt rather than increasing facistic tendencies.

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Re: It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen
[info]tubewhore
2008-05-08 03:01 pm UTC (link)
I've printed out the legal guidelines. Have taken to carrying them around with me...

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[info]nalsa
2008-04-02 11:17 pm UTC (link)
Just wondering, was the Stop issued by a PCSO? AIUI PCSOs can only Stop if under the supervision of a proper policeman, unless it's for anti-terror reasons. If it is for anti-terror reasons, taking photographs of a public place are not reasonable grounds. What was the reason given on the paperwork for the Stop?

(Amusingly, the reason given for a Stop in this instance was for having "Grey Hair".)

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[info]midnightxpress
2008-04-03 10:16 am UTC (link)
LOL...but then most coppers on the beat aren't there for their intelligence as proven by the link.

I agree that in a court of law he really didn't have "reasonable grounds". But I've been hit by a policeman's nightstick before (in the face) and decided just to answer his questions and laugh it of.

He was bored and saw two strange people in black and took it from there...

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If you see foreigners taking photographs please call the anti tourist line.
[info]markrimmell
2008-04-03 12:10 am UTC (link)
I have the anti terrorist phone number saved on my mobile... people were asked to do this presumably in case we overheard terrorists making dastardly plans. Although I think if I ever was in that situation I'd be calling 999 at the first safe opportunity. I have an idea that once through to the anti terrorist line I would find it to be menu driven and I'd be invited by a recorded voice to "Press 1 if you suspect an attack is imminent, press 2 if it is in the planning stages, press 3 if you want to give yourself up..." I franticly press 1 then get the next menu "Please press 1 to report Islamic fundamentalist activity, press 2 for anarchists, press 3 for separatist movements, press 4 for..." by then the bad guys would have noticed me and fled... or worse.

Somewhat surprised to discover from your link, that having two mobile phones marks people as a potential suspect... I carry two mobile phones pretty much all the time now. Why... well one has wifi and the other has a better interface for playing chess. I know other people who have a work phone and personal phone on them.

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[info]secretlondon
2008-04-03 01:23 am UTC (link)
I got stopped taking this photo of Borough tube station
(in 2004).

A cop car saw me and actually stopped and came over.. They radioed through my details and let me go (for not 'fitting the profile' ie being asian?)

They asked me if I had a press card, of course the police-run press card scheme is designed to keep out amateurs..

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[info]tubewhore
2008-05-08 12:13 pm UTC (link)
this is another point - I was discussing this incident with some friends of the family and they were outraged that I'd been hassled by the fuzz mostly because I'm a nice middle-class white girl, so how could I be suspected me of terrorism? ...it's all very tangled, and I suspect contains a good dollop of Daily Mail indoctrination against brown people, as though it wouldn't have been equally unjustifed had I been Asian...

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[info]gmul
2008-04-03 06:17 am UTC (link)
Given that I carry two phones, a phone/data-capable PDA, a Leatherman, camera and often assorted other tools I am clearly a dangerous terrorist and should hand myself in immediately.

On the other hand, since as far as I'm aware we haven't yet lost the War On Stuff I'll continue carrying everything as part of my own fight against the Evil Ones (whichever side they claim to be on).

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[info]mrsrev
2008-04-03 08:24 am UTC (link)
*headdesk*
My 76 year old mother has two mobile phones (it's a long story to do with network coverage). She also likes to take random photos. Better not bring her to London again. I keep waiting to be stopped because I like to photograph interesting things, although I do draw the line at photographing CCTV cameras. I like to wave at them though :-)

Some of us grew up through the IRA years, when mobiles did not exist. There is probably a point to that sentence but I can't think of it right now :-( Too early...

And I love the LOLcat poster on that link!

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[info]tubewhore
2008-05-08 12:16 pm UTC (link)
I sometimes like to make the point in photos of just how many surveillance cameras there are these days...it was in the news recently that they don't seem to be preventing crime, or helping that much with detection of crime despite high profile examples like the London Bombers movements being tracked on CCTV footage after the events of the 7th July. So if they aren't working, what are they being used for - gathering information on what people are up to? People that aren't breaking the law, but just might not be up to things the government approves of...

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[info]spangle_kitten
2008-04-03 09:02 am UTC (link)
Yet they film us hundreds of times a day without our permission...

My mum was made to pull the film out of her camera (yes, it was a few years ago!!) when she took a picture of the Cardington Hangers for my grandad who was demobbed there after the war which could possibly be understandable sort of as they were being used for military equipment development at the time but in London?! One of the tourism hotspots of the world...I'm just imagining the prisons full of Japanese tourists and Women's Institute daytrippers...

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[info]carakins
2008-04-03 10:02 am UTC (link)
Blimey. That is bloody ridiculous.

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[info]wieselkind
2008-04-03 12:15 pm UTC (link)
ohforgoodnesssake.
Bloody police, i know they have a job to do but really...

Those interior shots are lovely. I see what you mean about London being a little grubby round the edges.

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[info]the_marquis
2008-04-04 09:37 pm UTC (link)
Here via [info]juggzy too. Some laws are dumb, especially lots of new ones - but too often so are the people enforcing them.

But what's scary is that something like that might not have just been about heavy-handedness but also "getting the tick in the box" for the statistics (that this gov seem so enamoured of ...)

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[info]severe_delays
2008-04-08 11:56 pm UTC (link)
Bloody silliness. Give me a shout next time you have jobsworth coppers and a tube station you want snapping. Let's see em prevent *me* from taking photos of my place of work! ;-)

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